I'll be proudly sporting Hoka One One shoes this year. Yesterday, I shot this frozen video of Dave Mackey (after I gave him some pointers on how to run up Green Mtn).
If you want to watch it without overlapping content on the side, view it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypr5ksJxd90
I have that same Pikes Peak jacket. Mine should have sleeves missing or a broken zipper or something though with how long it took me to qualify for it.
ReplyDelete"after I gave him some pointers on how to run up Green Mtn"... nice. Sounds familiar but you are joking.
ReplyDeleteCool video, what camera are you using?
Brett,
ReplyDeleteYou ran the same trail to the same summit and back. That's pretty awesome in my book!
Lucho,
Yeah, it would've been difficult to give Dave any pointers, considering he was so far in front of me that I couldn't even see him (that, and my eyes were frozen shut).
I just used my high def camera on my iphone4. I literally couldn't feel any of my fingers and was shaking from the cold being in damp clothes.
You should wear dry clothes. There. That's my pointer for you :)
ReplyDeleteSo I guess you like the Hokas?
ReplyDeleteGood stuff. Glad to see you guys pushing the marketing envelope in this grass roots fashion.
ReplyDeleteI find the Hoka thing incredibly interesting. In the face of all this minimalist shoe traffic (which I don't do a lot of, because of the scar tissue on my feet), the Hokas seem to be 180 degrees the opposite sort of shoe. What are your thoughts on that?
BTW - I think having different niche shoes like that makes sense. The folks who are attracted to a Smart Car are not necessarily the same who are attracted to a Hummer H3.
Good point Tim...you know I did actually pass DaveM about 11 miles into the race. ;)
ReplyDeleteGeorge, I am no expert on this topic, but I think the bottom line is you run with what shoes you like the best. The physiological risks seem to be that if you run on cushioned shoes you can get away with bad form more...whereas more minimalist shoes force you to run 'the right way'.
But for someone like you, I think thats all poppycock. If you keep using good form there is no reason why you can't wear cushioned shoes...then you get all the benefits of cushioned shoes. (duh)
I wouldn't wear or use anything I don't like. I think the Hokas are interesting (definitely in the way they look!) in that they are incredibly cushioned and yet are lighter than most trail shoes and have minimal drop, like minimalist shoes. The Bondi-B model weighs 9 oz in my size.
ReplyDeleteI'm really looking forward to see how I feel after my first 100 mile of the season next month. That'll be the real test!
Are not the Hoka's fairly neutral?
ReplyDeleteSo I would think even with all the cushion they would not be good if someone excessively pronates and requires more support.
You're right on both points, Nick. They're neutral and heavy pronators won't have support in them. I ran behind some dude with them at Bear and noticed how much he pronated (I worked in a specialty running shop for a long time and did video analysis on people's running form in my sleep).
ReplyDeleteThe Hokas have about the same drop heel to toe as the 101's (i.e. pretty flat). In comparison, my Pearl Izumi Fuel XC have about 12mm drop. The Hokas are like a minimalist shoe with a bunch of cushioning.
I've run and raced in minimalist shoes before and noticed that though I felt faster in the earlier miles I fatigued and slowed from the constant pounding in later stages of the race. My hope and belief is that I'll retain more energy with a cushioned ride.
As someone that is prone to rolling their ankles, those things definitely give me pause. You, or anyone, have any thoughts on that?
ReplyDeleteI guess I have had a different definition of a minimalist shoe. I have thought about it as cushioning, and less about the heel drop.
ReplyDeleteI think I'd continue my heel striking ways (which I know in some circles makes me a running heretic) regardless of the heel drop if I had that much cushion.
FWIW - I am much more interested in trying these than any of the other mini related shoes that are out there.
And Dave's jacket is sweet.
Yeah - and given my last major crash was with you as a major ankle roll, I'd be concerned in these platforms.
GZ,
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm a bit of a heel striker (I roll quickly through the motion though).
People blather on about how bad heel striking is but every impact force chart I've ever seen shows the higher impact force is with forefoot striking. The shape of the graph is like one big mountain. Heel striking's graph is a smaller mountain with two peaks (the initial heel strike and then the force when hitting the ball of the foot). The two peaks of force in the heel strike are lower impact than the forefoot strike. That tells me that heel striking, if the rest of your form is good, i.e. short gait/quick cadence, is better for the joints and more efficient.
My personal opinion.
Can't personally answer the question yet on the rolling factor. I haven't read or heard of any cases of it though.
ReplyDeleteDave took a nice wipeout yesterday but that was because there was a sheet of ice under snow after coming off a little foot bridge in Bear canyon.
Tim, isn't the 'issue' with heel strike not so much about the size of the force relative to forefoot striking, but where the force is going and other ramifications around breaking?
ReplyDeleteIn other words, if you run on your forefeet, you probably have a bent knee, and your foot placement is just behind the vertical (directly under your knee to slightly even behind it). So you are literally pushing the ground backwards as you plant and run.
Whereas if you are a heel striker, your foot is further out in front of your knee. Therefore, a lot more of the force is directed up through a less bent knee and there is a slight breaking force with every step.
If you were on a skateboard and rode off a 4 foot loading dock, which would hurt more, a straight fall, or one where you were moving forward at 10mph?
The downward vector of force of the dock is the same regardless if it is off the dock directly or with a running start. It is still four feet. In fact the amount of time of the fall ought to be the same.
ReplyDeleteIt is the vertical component that you introduced and then the needing to bring that to zero that means you are dealing with more ... well, pain.
How did you strike up this deal? I guess you can't call them disco shoes or moon boots anymore... As far as the heel/mid/fore, everyone I talk to who analyzes gait (not as in shoe store worker) says you're best to run with what is natural. Try to mess with your gait (especially old guys like you and GZ) and you are asking for trouble. So if you heel strike, as I do, the little pasty slipper shoes are out. If you don't roll an ankle in your 100 miler, I'll try em out probably!! When you want to run with a slow guy?
ReplyDeleteGZ, thats the point in my analogy, you got it.
ReplyDeleteIn the 10mph skateboard example, the forces are split between down and forward. Your weight, total force (adding the two pieces), time to fall, etc. are the same. I admit I am not an expert in this and the engineering classes where I learned these things are like 15 years behind me now...but thats what I'm wondering out loud - a force pushing through the heel directly up the body producing a breaking force versus a foot pushing the body forwards. Pushing a car via the Fred Flintstone method versus leaning into the back bumper pushing forwards. Who knows.
The key is where the impact occurs, in front of or on the center of gravity. Like I said, high cadence/short gait. My foot lands directly under me during a comfortable pace.
ReplyDeleteI was just thinking how much a drop from a loading deck on a skateboard would hurt.
Happy Trails,
I told hoka I'm an orphan and don't own any shoes. They were kindhearted and gave me a pair. I'm up for a run with you guys this weekend. You want to come up here?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4xMske-B6FM/TUjtRmlR5PI/AAAAAAAACFI/jwJHDKEvEAU/s1600/Running+Wild+final+poster.jpg
ReplyDeleteI love this photo of Scott Jurek as he appears to be running with a Tarahumara. I'm sure they are in different stages of their stride, but looks distinctly like a heel vs toe strike contest. We all know how fast Scott is in ulrtas, but this guy he's running next to looks like lightning! Not sure which is taking more impact, but I could take a good guess at who's faster;-)
There is always the Jim Furyk theory too...which is if it ain't broken don't fix it.
ReplyDeleteNot too many people have as quiet a footfall as yours, so you can probably get away with wearing Converse Chuck Taylors on a trail run!
ReplyDeleteFunny, I suspected that was Dave's Hoka tracks coming down Bear Canyon Wed afternoon as I followed the only two set of tracks on the trail Thursday AM as I ran up bear to green. I was hypothesizing on whose the other tracks were...but I couldn't guess.
ReplyDelete